Originally Posted by Cobalt Shadow
There was a shooting in Australia 16 years ago. 35 were killed and 23 injured. As a result of this the government payed civilians to hand in their guns. There were then laws on guns out in place. Yes, you can still get guns illegally.
Gun-related deaths in USA: 10.2 per 100000
Gun-related deaths in Australia: 1.05 per 100000
Gun-related deaths in UK: 0.25 per 100000 people (for sealboy)
Yes, even if there are gun-control laws, you can still get them illegally. But the bottom line is that it works,
Sure, gun-related deaths will drop if you put laws on guns. How about crime related deaths in general? Hate to say it dude, but just because you've wiped out one means of committing murder doesn't mean the person is suddenly going to become sweet and mellow and decide not to go on a homicidal rampage. They'll just find another way to do it. In any case, most deaths from gun violence are from gang-related incidents. I think it's more of a matter of keeping those under control. Again, it's more a matter of crime control, not gun control.
Originally Posted by Steak
how can we live in a society that condones public usage of tools of destruction for the purpose of self-defense, when in reality they are just about never used for that purpose. how is this even a debate.
You're right, we don't condone public usage of tools of destruction. People don't go walking around with guns all the time. Again, I think a lot of the people against this are mostly in the mindset that people would go utterly nuts if everyone carried a gun like life is just some bad, Hollywood action movie free for all where you shot to kill and winner takes all. They also seem to think that school shootings of this magnitude happen on a daily or even hourly basis just because guns are allowed to be purchased. Incidents like this are definitely not common.
Originally Posted by Steak
america's just dumb and likes to rely on traditional values that don't apply throughout changing times. were guns useful to protect one's self back in the Frontier days where grizzly bears and native american attacks were actual threats? sure. do we need guns now for the purpose of self defense? I don't know, does it feel like the early 1800's to you?
Please, if you don't like America, then don't ever feel the need to stay here. There's plenty of other countries out there that will gladly take those "freedoms" off your back if you no longer want them. I love how a lot of people call America "dumb" and "stupid" and generally treat this country like it's a pile of crap, but boy, the rest of the world would sure miss us if we were suddenly gone. See World War II to understand what happens when we leave the rest of the world to its own vices. Seriously. Either love this country or get out.
In the meantime, there's plenty of people that rely on hunting rifles to protect their livestock. Not everyone lives in an urban or suburban area like you probably do. And not everyone becomes a homicidal freak upon purchasing a firearm. Yes, it's something you need to be mature and responsible with. And I agree, it is something that only a person of sane mind and knowledge should be allowed to have. Same thing with a car. And with fire. In the right hands, a gun can be used responsibly as a tool of defense. In the wrong hands, yes, it is a deadly weapon. But there are countless other everyday objects that could be used as weapons if used irresponsibly.
If someone was out there trying to burglarize my home while I was still inside or trying to rape my wife or murder my kids, I'd like to think I'd have something to defend myself and my family with rather than a liberal's philosophy and/or a weeping plea in hopes he'll change his mind. And don't get me started on police response times. Until the day the local police force has teleportation devices, they still won't be able to get to the scene of the crime instantly. And obviously, you're not going to call up the cops because a wild coyote is harassing your chicken coop. But it would look rather silly if you were forced to use a steak knife on said coyote because it was the only weapon you had on you.
But in all seriousness, if you don't like the gun laws in the US and think life's better in another country, by all means, go there. I accept the fact that most people who own guns know how to handle them and are of sane mind to not just use them on innocent, every day people. I just appreciate we have the freedom of choice when it comes to that, even if you don't.
Yes, the 2nd amendment states we have the right to bear arms to defend ourselves from a corrupt government. And sure, we've had the luxury of not having to do that lately. Take a look around and you'll see plenty of other countries that haven't had it so lucky. But I'd like to think that if the absolute worst happened and our homeland military defense fell short, we wouldn't be completely and utterly helpless against whatever atrocities another invading country had in store for us. But if you feel more secure with that liberal philosophy at your side instead of a real means of defense, well, good luck to you and hope you never need it.