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Old 07-10-2012, 11:32 PM
Latio-Nytro's Avatar
Latio-Nytro Offline
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Default Re: [WAR XI] Debate Section

Team: Revolution Uprising.
Position: Against Legalization.

OK, I'm just going to be frank: WHY does the US, or really any country in general, NEED MORE addictive substances? They're dangerous, they usually alter one's mental psyche, and quite frankly, if the drug itself doesn't kill you, many a times the mental alterations consuming the drug brings about as side-effects will wind people up in the situations to kill themselves. Legalizing this, for starters, will assist the Mexican Drug Cartels, which the US consistently stops on a regular basis to keep them from selling it illegally. To have the ability to sell the drug legally will result in more revenue for an illegal organization. And it's not like that just because it's legal to sell Marijuana doesn't mean there won't be laws limiting its trade that the Mexican Drug Cartels will still break to keep business flowing. Also, Marijuana users have a greater tendency to fall into other illegal drugs, and mixing drugs together can have some bad consequences (ranging from long-term mental and/or physical disabilities to death to who-knows-what else). Legalizing Marijuana is, in many more ways, opening Pandora's Box. Considering the three posts cover different reasons why to legalize Marijuana, I’ll explain myself more via the criticisms I give to the others.

Typhlosion Explosion, despite being from my team, I will have to cut your post open and give my criticisms.
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
I'll start off with saying that it is proven that weed does much less damage than alcohol. One ways it does less damage is brain damage. It impairs you much worse than weed does. It also damages the families of those killed in drunk driving accidents.

33,808 people were killed in traffic accidents. 10,839 of these deaths was a result of alcohol (32% of all traffic deaths)

An additional 254,000 suffered injuries due to an alcohol related accident

Counter to drugged driving.

More than 16 percent of weekend, nighttime drivers tested positive for illegal, prescription, or over-the-counter.

Most of those drugs are most likely illegal and were most likely pot or crack, so it would only seem that around 10% were positive on illegal drugs. Not to mention the lower percentage of people killed while high on marijuana.

Intelligence suggests that if anything, alcohol should also be illegal.
I would like to point out that the reason there are more deaths from Alcohol is partially because Alcohol is a stronger drug, but more so because Alcohol is a substance that people can legally have, unlike Marijuana-meaning that they have easier access to it by legal means, quite unlike Marijuana, and once people have obtained it and put it into their bodies, there is little government intervention that can stop someone that's really drunk from breaking laws-who wouldn't think about all the laws and regulations once they are that impaired, as it's been proven countless times. There is a law about drinking and driving, and people still drink and drive, mainly out of the fact that they won't really think about that law while drunk. The same applies to Cannabis in that, once people are drugged up, they are less likely to acknowledge the laws surrounding their condition (or really laws in general), and may proceed to break those laws.

Typhlosion Explosion is correct: Alcohol is a more dangerous drug than Cannabis, because its effects and addictive properties are more powerful and potent than Cannabis. However, that does NOT, in any way, overshadow the fact that Cannabis is STILL a drug, and can still impair your bodily functions and your mental reasoning in the short term and long term, and due to this is dangerous. The reason there aren't more deaths by Cannabis is because it isn't legal yet, and if it was legal, there would be more deaths. The fact that there ARE deaths while people are affected by the drug at all is cause for action.

Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Freedom suggests that people have the right to use pot. People should have the right to us pot if it is their will. However, marijuana does not endanger others because of the user's own free will.
It is a major folly of judgment to take a drug and use it for recreational purposes at all, and one’s ability to perceive the world as it really is can also become quite impaired at higher dosages. Marijuana does have addictive qualities, and if they receive effects of withdraw, they won't feel comfortable and will smoke weed more to avoid those effects, how addiction works. The state of mind people are put into while under the effects of Marijuana is different for everyone, as well-and, again, some higher-than-average doses can lead to hallucinations/illusions.

Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Marijuana also costs our government billions of dollars. When the government locks people up in jail or prison, the tax payers have to pay for it. They have to pay for the individual's food, their housing, their uniforms, the electricity bills, etc. Almost 850,000 Americans yearly are arrested for pot purposes. That is a lot of money we as a nation would save if we legalized pot.
This, I cannot deny. While, inevitably government will pick up and save cash from the move, so will the Drug Cartels in Mexico, who frequently border-cross Marijuana, and will suddenly find that they can now go in with it legally (should the laws play in their favor). I must note it is not likely that the Drug Cartels should sell directly to the US for recreational purposes, for the record, which, depending on the level of regulations being introduced, could still be illegal (it could also still be illegal for the Cartels to border cross). I must still note that the Drug Cartels of Mexico, albeit now having all reason to sell Marijuana, considering it is legal (in that scenario), they will STILL break laws just to give it direct rather than let the US government have it, probably ignoring any regulations around it to sell to their audiences. That they are a criminal threat to the US as much as Mexico cements no end of doubt that Marijuana legalization shall make them stronger and wealthier, something we'd all rather avoid. It’s a trade-off, however, with some more economic stability and finally starting to get to a more comfortable level of debt , but I cannot understand why the US government would dare pass a law that would incite criminal organizations to act.

Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Another reason to legalize pot is that people are going to do it anyways. Pot being illegal doesn't stop those addicted to pot, who will do most anything for it. This just causes trouble for the government and the pot users.
The reason we keep Cannabis illegal is to keep MORE people from getting hooked on Cannabis, and possibly still doing illegal things to get at it. Even if Pot should be legalized, there would be regulations and punishments for breaking regulations won't stop them from being broken, possibly even more than the ban itself.

Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
Marijuana is also used in religion. Christians drink wine on occasion, and some Buddhists smoke pot. The first amendment states that the government cannot interfere with one's religion. It is also true that people of most religion do live in America. What can the government do about that? They can't arrest someone for religion, because that violates the first amendment. Smoking marijuana is not in the Constitution.
In the United States, there is a law that prevents Religious Duty from being a proper defense against Criminal Indictment. As it's something that can alter your mental and bodily functions-a drug-the US government has the right to keep people from having access to it out of safety reasons. That’s really the only two reasons, as a lawmaker, why I would have to deny the Buddhists their Marijuana.

LS has a few things I want to comment on, as well...(For the record, the below is in response to one of TE's quotes)
Originally Posted by LS the Door Mat View Post
Firstly, Marijuana is a non addictive substance. You will not feel the pain of withdrawal from smoking too much weed. It seems odd to me that you would be defending marijuana but would say something like that.
Alcohol isn't an addictive drug either, or at least isn't advertised as such. A person grows addicted because the different state of body that Cannabis puts someone is, after repetitive exposure, becomes the norm, and without it, the body starts reacting inappropriately, causing the person to want more to avoid the withdraw-the cycle of addiction. LS is correct, however, on its strength: Cannabis isn't as strong as other drugs in potency and addictive power (like Alcohol), but it still can harm you, which is the entire point: should it be legal for a harmful drug to be released? Also, if the developed dependency on the drug is measured by the pain of withdraw when you stop smoking it after a specific amount of time, then I cannot guess why you would have more dependency to Cannabis than Anabolic Steroids, in example, because THEY have more power to harm you, yet are much less addictive. Cannabis, however, is still more addictive.

Originally Posted by LS the Door Mat View Post
If you smoked marijuana everyday for 30 days straight and then decide to stop, ofcourse youre going to feel some difference, but the change will not affect you mentally. You will feel a little different but it's usage can be discontinued at will.
Of COUSRE you're going to feel some difference, however, it's this uncomforting difference that can put people in the state of mind to KEEP using Marijuana. It is entirely the person's choice to quit, but addiction can quickly cloud any judgment the person has. It is not as if Cannabis has NO addictive qualities whatsoever, and in fact, for one of the weaker drugs on the market, its addictive qualities are quite high.

Here is a string of quotes from Lan.exe:
Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
First, I shall begin with enlightening those who have never been fortunate enough to take a puff of the glorious cannabis plant. When you inhale smoke, there goes without saying that this is "harmful" to the body. However, the same can be said with a lot of lab chemicals in our everyday foods. The key here is that these things are not harmful unless consumed in excess.
Lan.exe is correct: The harm in most drugs is overdose, excess consumption. However, there is no known limit as to what constitutes an overdose to compare it to. This isn't even mentioning how there will be at least one person who will attempt to consume it in excess, legal or no. If it's legal, the number of those people will jump up, no matter how many laws restrict it's usage. Laws preventing this much Cannabis from being eaten can help prevent it, but ultimately there are the people who will overdose.

Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
The difference with cannabis smoke and tobacco smoke is that the cannabis smoke does not create a tar lining in your lungs, nor is it cancerous (there are even studies claiming cannabis has anti-carcinogenic properties). Obviously, it goes without saying that if the latter is legal, there's no reason the former shouldn't be.
Due to this statement, I sometimes wonder why Tobacco is legal at all. I mean, come on, it's one of the world's most famous carcinogens, and is quite addictive in itself. That being said, Cannabis also produces 50 known Carcinogens and produces a Tar that is chemically similar to the Tar from Tobacco. By the reverse, because something claims to have carcinogenic properties does not mean people should rush to it in hopes of curing a cancer, when Cannabis isn't deemed completely safe for such things.

Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
Now, when one gets "high", one does not become stupid or impaired like many propagandists would have you believe. Instead, the effect is a soothing trance-like state, where the mind notices everything around you more and with a sense of wonder similar to that of a child. Like any psychedelic, the possibility for a "bad trip" remains, however they can easily be avoided with some mental preparation (relax, don't give in to fear).
I do not believe that the above statement is completely true, considering there are negative effects as well that may or may not have anything to do with mental preparation. Common physical effects include (but are not limited to) The reddening of the eyes and decreased intra-ocular pressure, dryness in the mouth, a sensation of heat or cold (felt by the skin), an increased heart rate, and a relaxation of the muscles. People under the effects of Cannabis have markedly slower muscle reactions as well.

There is also a heightened focus and greater level of perception experienced, occasionally resulting in extremely elevated feelings and emotions (read=getting sensitive). There are effects to prove the trance-like state effect above, but there's also a note that it can disrupt linear thought, produce paranoia and/or anxiety. Anxiety is particularly common, producing 20-30% of reported side-effects. Panic Attacks also occur. Distortion of perception of Time and Space can occur (lengthening of shorter times spans to longer ones), and at higher doses, auditory and/or visual illusions, altered body image (how one sees their own body, not how it looks), pseudo-hallucinatory or, very rarely, fully hallucinatory experiences (the latter being at very high doses), and Ataxia from self-impairment.

The whole experience can last from 10 minutes to 8 hours.

Originally Posted by Lan.exe View Post
I believe that cannabis should be used in a spiritual manner (unlike these gangsta shits who smoke to be "cool") as it magnifies the senses and really opens up the mind to everything around you. I hope that as time progresses, we gain a better understanding of the intangible implications of consuming cannabis and don't always focus on the "drug abuse" implications, because in my mind, cannabis is infinitely different than any other drug. It's an herbal remedy, and I cannot stand people treating it in the same category as crack or meth. You smoke too much weed, you'll take a nap, you won't die or go crazy.
I'll admit, the last part of that quote is quite true: Smoking enough weed to enter lethally toxic levels is very hard. It isn't as if it's impossible, though, and you can die by Marijuana poisoning in other ways. Smoking isn't the only way you can take in Cannabis, even if it is the most famous.

To conclude, Marijuana, no matter how you dice it, has its bad sides. These are bad sides that aid crime, contribute to physical impairment, and have always been controversial. I believe that the current status of Marijuana-related laws in the US is currently the system we should be doing things as, and is not in any way wrong or immoral.

Here's my sources for some of this information:

Here's where I got the majority of the information pertaining to Marijuana.

This is where I got a little more in-depth with the effects of Cannabis.

(If anyone is insulted by the above argument, I meant no insult whatsoever. I also admit that most of this is a counter to the majority of the above statements, but the majority of the points against Cannabis were usually covered in said counterarguments. I'm also new at this...But really. I have to try, don't I?)

(Note: Edited out Reynolds V. USA link because I remembered I edited that part out for no correlation.)
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Last edited by Latio-Nytro; 07-10-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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