Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...
Ooo the "The Bible was written by God" argument! I love that one!
All the Bible is is circular logic. I can do circular logic too. Watch.
God didn't write the Bible. Why? Because the Bible isn't perfect. Why isn't the Bible perfect? Because it was written by people, who are imperfect. But God wrote the Bible! Therefore God is imperfect! But god can't be imperfect. Therefore god doesn't exist and the Bible is a load of ****!
The Bible is imperfect because humans have been trying to "perfect" it for centuries. Chapters have been removed, even entire Gospels.... For example the Gospel of Judas. (look it up)
In fact certain points contradict each other for example:
There are two versions of the creation story, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.
First (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
(Humans were created after the other animals.)
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image.
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)
(Humans were created before the other animals.)
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
First Account (Genesis 1:1-2:3)
(The first man and woman were created simultaneously.)
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Second Account (Genesis 2:4-25)
(The man was created first, then the animals, then the woman from the man's rib.)
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Moving to the Gospels and later:
John (the Baptist) was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24
Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.
If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."
When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.
Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13
Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.
The Bible contradicts itself, therefore it is not perfect. Edit something a thousand times and it will never have the same meaning. There are THOUSANDS of versions of the Bible, all claiming by fervent believers that THEIR version is correct.
Now who wrote the Bible?
Of the four Gospels in the New Testament; Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Three of them, Matthew, Mark and Luke, are called the synoptic gospels. This is because they agree moderately well on the life and teachings of Jesus, although each is a little different from the other two.
The Gospel of John is a different matter. Some scholars believe that John was originally written in a Gnostic community and was subsequently edited to remove some of the more clearly Gnostic material, although the gospel still has similarities with the Gnostic ways.
John differs from the synoptic Gospels because it is not just listing events in the life of Jesus. John is more thematic in nature and less chronological, and provides more theological discourse on the person and work of Christ.
The various dialects and word usage used in the law books suggest multiple sources and revisionism. It's thought that Yahweh (the god of the bible, also known as 'The God of Abraham') was part of polytheistic myths where different countries had different gods. Yahweh was the god of war and became Israel's god. And then they were revised when Deuteronomy (the last of the Torah) came about to make it monotheistic.
Which explains the massive amount of holy wars in the law books, the fact that there are various phrases indicating multiple gods. Why Yahweh/Moses were so against worshipping of other gods and why Yahweh is consistently referred to as 'the LORD your God'.
Similar things to the Jesus story had been done again and again before Jesus and it's thought that it was reused by the authors of the Gospels. Virgin births, three day resurrections, saviours and similar phrases like "Horus the Child" come from the Egyptian myths about Horus.
There is some evidence to suggest that the genesis creation story (namely the first chapter), existed before the book Genesis did. And was part of a polytheistic religion. Hence the leftover of:
Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
There is also evidence of lots of civilisations (China, etc.) being older than Noah's flood.
NOW: if you were to tell me that when I was Christian that I was a "bad" one, then you are as well. See according to the Catechism it's, get this, YOUR fault that I'm atheist. Yep. You failed in YOUR duty to keep me nice and Christian. Your fault. Dig it? YOURS. Now you have to say that in your next confession.
CCC 2125 Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion.61 The imputability of this offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances. "Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism. To the extent that they are careless about their instruction in the faith, or present its teaching falsely, or even fail in their religious, moral, or social life, they must be said to conceal rather than to reveal the true nature of God and of religion."
In fact I was a very devout Christian. Thank you very much. Then on got hit in the head with a logic stick.
We are all atheists in respects to Zeus and Thor. Their faith that their people had for deities were as strong as any faith or belief now with the God of Abraham. How could people with such faith toss away this faith and instead worship another? Proof that faith is fleeting.
I believe that religion, especially this blind faith, is dangerous. Millions have died in religious conflict, in the name of their respective gods. Isn't killing still killing whether or not it is in the name of a deity? Is it still wrong to believe that killing is bad? Should I walk over to my neighbor who is Muslim and shoot him, and when the police question me I say it was because he was a non believer? It sounds wrong because it is. Yet millions have died in the same conflict for the sake of faith and religion. The Crusades, the Spanish Conquistadores, the Inquisition, the French Wars of Religion, Protestants vs. Catholics, Thirty Years War, Taipeng Rebellion, the Islamic notion of Jihad, the Jewish Milchemet Mitzvah, the Christian Milites Christi, the Holocaust, the Reconquista, and many more.
There have been 123 major wars considered to be purely religious, 66 of them involving Islam. That doesn't include the numerous conflicts, such as Terrorism and the issues between the warring tribes in Iraq, or even the squabbles between warring tribes in Africa.
'Loving' God my ass.
Last edited by Phantom0990; 01-30-2012 at 04:49 AM.