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Old 12-16-2011, 11:32 PM
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Redlark Offline
Join Date: May 2005
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

PE2K Voices - Excuse me, but there is a certain point in which the accusation of ignorance is correct. If the person knows absolutely nothing of what said person is talking about, or rejects reality, it is ignorance. No one is accusing the person to be totally ignorant, but only ignorant in that subject.

Just like you can be totally ignorant towards philosophy and ethics, but be brilliantly smart in the mathematics. Calling the person ignorant in said area is valid.
I'm not brilliantly smart in mathematics. I just thought certain things were common knowledge. Like Income Tax... When you get paid through a taxable check, you never get what you worked for. May it be McDonalds, Kroger, Toys R Us, whatever. Even if it's only a $25 check. You still get like three or five bucks taken out for taxes. And the only actual calculating that I did for that post was with my own personal income.

But if you're going to say I'm "totally ignorant" with ethics and philosophy, you're wrong. I've probably read just as much dry material as you have. Everything from Plato, Dante, Satre, Camus, Adams, Marx, Trotsky, Aquinas, Bible, Koran, the Tanakh, Einstein, Telsa, Clovers and Blue Moons, Hearts and a--nvm. I almost minored in Philosophy in college. But soon realized I could learn and apply just as much on my own by talking with actual Philosophy majors and Religious Majors in my area.

I wouldn't feel like I could make a good political argument if I didn't feel as if something wasn't completely fair in certain fields.

But on with ethics--I'll play the role of Socrates and throw out a hypothetical argument:

Is it ethical for Politicians to make outrageous promises they can't keep?


Do outrageous promises get numbers at the election booth?


No politician is innocent. Not to say they don't try their best all the time. I'm pretty sure if Obama felt like an idea was, at it's root, bad. He'd try at all cost to avoid that option (unless there were no other options, then he's in the chair of doing bad things because he has to). But as a politician, if you knew your Plato, is arguable.

My actual argument was--

Obama's not awesome. But he can be heck of a lot worse. Will I vote for him in 2012? I don't know, we'll see what happens in the caucus. Or if anybody better steps up. We'll see. IT DEPENDS. There are many factors to take in, not just promises and speeches.

My other thing is--A lot of people consider Obama as one of the greats. He isn't one of the greats. But I will congratulate him any day for being the first non-white president. I'm not white myself, I think that's cool. I think it's honestly great! (Though, it was bound to happen. Society has definitely stepped up since the 60's in terms of racism) Other than that--...he's mediocre.

Somethings I applaud, other times I raise my eyebrow and say, "WTF, mate."

Lusankya - I've got news for you: If you're at the income level where the tobacco tax is a large enough percentage of your income that it can make you go broke, then you are poor enough that you don't pay any income tax anyways, and in fact the government probably pays you more than you pay it.
I'd also like to point out that this also isn't mathematical brilliance...

Everybody pays income tax, regardless of income level. I thought that was common knowledge. Income Tax doesn't work like Monopoly, Monopoly was created prior to Social Security and way before Medicare. Income's been taxed since at least 1937 with the start of Social Security and what have ya for Medicare, etc. and so forth.

Oh, and guess why Medicare has to be cut? It's because the US now has some of the lowest income taxes it has had decades! You are exhibiting the classic fallacy: "I should pay less to the government but the government should pay me more!" It doesn't work that way. Money for Medicare has to come from somewhere. And if you are going to whine about taxes being too high, it is complete hypocrisy for you to complain about cuts to government services when the US is now saddled with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio it has ever had. You can't have it both ways. Either you get low taxes and low services, or you get high taxes and high services. I shouldn't even have to tell you this, it's basic economic sense.
I don't see why your'e trying to "school" me on the basics of Taxes and Economics if you don't understand the simple basics of Income Tax and a paystub. It's called research.

Income taxes are based off how you fill out your W-4 and how many exemptions you allow. So basically (no math required, just experience with the system): If I allow my checks to be taxed higher than usual, either I'll get a refund or come out even (not taking into account other taxes that aren't income based).

PE2K Voices - Obama sucks? Is that because he is open to same-sex marriage? Hay now, let us keep this PG rated. ;)
Yes, let's keep this PG rated. Never in MY personal argument have I said same sex marriages were bad. Marriage is a religious matter, and there's a thing (I'm pretty sure we're all aware of it) called Freedom of Religion.

My political opinion is, if there's one church or mosque or wtvr that disagrees with Same Sex Marriage, the government shouldn't force them to conduct them. But if a church or whatever believes same-sex marriage is okay, then let them do it! It's a religious right!

You're just making the assumption that I believe or disagree with certain things based off of prejudices about certain groups of people. Don't do that. That's unethical.

* * * * *

Anyways--I'd like to know, only because it might allow myself to grow mentally (because I'm so "ethically ignorant"). Even though--I think Medicare is vital, Welfare (if not abused) helps people, and most importantly: Consistency is an important trait for any politician.

Why am I so ethically ignorant to philosophy and ethics?

Unless you believe in social relativity--cause in that case, we're both right! Yay!

If you're so philosophically inclined, let me test you:

Who was (or were) the major Philosopher(s) to argue social relativism?


Who literally wrote the original book of Ethics? (lol, is that ethical to base all ethics off of one persons opinions? not the question, just a fun question.)
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