Originally Posted by Tasogares Red Mist
You say there is no evidence, and yet in the end whether there is in fact evidence or not is all up to perception. You can say "Who created the creator?" but let's assume for a moment there *is* in fact a God. And that something did create him. If that is the case, then we can go further back in time. But no matter how far we go back, we will *have* to reach a starting point.
Um, no honey.
A) Evidence is not in perception at all. Evidence is empirical. It cannot be contradicted. There is evidence that creatures evolve. There is NO evidence that any sort of deity exists, and that is fact.
B) You said yourself that everything has to have a beginning, so it will go on forever and ever, because that is the logic you have presented to me.
That is pure logic and scientific fact.
Something that a a complete belief in a deity lacks. I see nothing wrong with believing in God. I am Agnostic, but sometimes I find myself talking to God as if I believed he was there for real. I realize, however, that nobody knows, and so it would not be fair to say he is or is not there.
It is fact that there was a beginning. But, as you have seen, logic and scientific fact are based on observable evidence. Everything that we have observed has had a beginning. We have not observed a deity of any sorts, and while I still won't say it there is one or not (since I don't know), it would be illogical to throw your lot into it wholly when there is absolutely no evidence.
But once we reach that point you will once again wonder "What created it?" Well, there are two different answers. One, it just happened to appear out of nowhere. (Illogical) Or two, an intelligent being created it. But that too seems illogical right because you will just say where did it come from? It's not something that a person can fully comprehend. We can claim to understand it, or pretend to do it like most religions do. (Which is one reason I prefer to go my own way, rather than follow a major religious group.) You are right, there is no one single thing that just straight up says "Oh here is God." But there are far too many things that are just too....convenient? (Use whatever word you want.) That is "My" reason for believing there is in fact a *God* or whatever you want to call it. The Universe had to start somewhere, and if someone can believe it goes on forever (this being illogical as said before), then why is it so hard to believe that there could be something that created it, and was not created itself? Though I suppose it is possible to say that *God* is not intelligent, and is just some energy phenomenon that somehow was converted into matter. (Of course that would just be a pain to discuss.)
Illogical would be believing that it is illogical to say that the Universe came out of nowhere, but an intelligent being did come out of nowhere. Since there is more evidence saying that the Universe came from an atomic explosion 13.7 billion years ago, it is more logical to believe in that than in something that has no evidence.
If you believe that both sides do not have more evidence than the other, why do you believe in either one?