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Old 07-18-2011, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Not a terrible reason. One can be raised to be an Atheist, and looking by your logic, that is a terrible thing. When I first became Agnostic, I thought my parents attempted to brainwash me into becoming Catholic when I was little, and that is what it is. But, I also realized anyone with an agenda can do that, so, Atheists can be quite guilty of it too.

Intellectually capable? This person seems to be, despite being taught at an early age to believe in God. Want to know why? The person is questioning. That is a brilliant thing, because despite the way you are looking at it, this person is not a mindless follower of Christ.
Yes. By my definition, being raised as atheist would be just as terrible. It's about being raised to believe something being a reason that's the problem. It's about finding your own spiritual medium, not indoctrination of a spiritual medium from someone else. I don't care whose agenda this is. However, it just happens to be that this one's Christian.

Show me examples of his original post that tells you that he's questioning, which is what I was replying to at that point in time. His opinions were in the latter half to which I had responded to.

Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
I do agree with this, but instead of acting like a jerk about it, explain the theory (and subsequent fact, until proven otherwise).

The Big Bang theory is much more complex, and has nothing to do with two rocks smacking together. It has to do with, essentially, an atomic explosion occurring, causing matter to fly all over the place. Now, keep in mind, matter makes up everything. There are different types of matter, Dark Matter, Anti Matter, Red Matter, and, well, your regular Matter. Despite the point, the explosion was theoretically caused by the first two atoms. Now, keep in mind, Albert Einstein was completely false when it came to actual Quantum Physics. Matter can be created or destroyed, but at different levels. Until proven otherwise, the only thing that cannot be created or destroyed is energy itself. Different subject entirely, but I digress.

The explosion opened up pathways for all sorts of different materials, and as you know (hopefully), the periodic table displays only the materials in our remote area (there may be more). And yes, chance is real. Statistics states that. Of course, chance does vary depending on math. And as it was very unlikely that the certain chemical process happened to give life, it is certainly not impossible.

There are several theories on how life arrived, not how it was created. We all know how it was created. How it arrived is a different matter. The Pan Spermia theory tends to be the most favored by the great thinkers such as Stephen Hawking. The Pan Spermia theory states that asteroids already baring the microscopic life impacted on our newly formed planet. If the same has happened here however, you also have to consider the possibility of life on other planets. And no, not aliens, but rather, creatures simply inhabiting other planets. They may look similar or totally different, depending how they adapted. Adapted.
None of this is about evolution.

Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Key word there. Evolution teaches nothing less, and nothing more. Evolution simply teaches that living things, such as us, develop over time. Did you know that humans existed well before the time of God? Not necessarily before his existence, but well before we knew of him supposedly. That shows that we did not need his light to evolve into the thinking of a god. Several different areas around the world developed almost the same beliefs. The sun being the giver of life, and there being other gods or demigods in charge of other places.

Did you know Christianity would have been TOTALLY different had the Greeks and Romans never influenced it? Arch angels like Michael and Gabriel are both based off different Greek demigods. Which is plainly shows that religion evolves overtime. How does it do this? Either two possible answers. God evolves, or our minds do. Of course, if God evolves, we can safely assume he is a far different God than what most Christians think. If it is our minds evolving, we can safely say that there is no God influencing that specific belief. And since every religion changes, adapts, and evolves, we can say that God influences no religion. Yet, back to the Big Bang theory. How did the first two atoms come into existence? Not even Hawking has an answer for that. The only thing we can do is either believe God did it and continue to find an answer until it fills up the place for the need of the Maker, or we can say there is no God, and search for an answer that fills of that space. That is also assuming there is no God, which cannot be proven as of yet. Which, of course, makes Agnosticism, logically, the most correct belief.
Look. He's 11. I am not at the intellectual capacity for me to actually teach him anything in such a way that it would make sense for the both of us when it comes to science. The cognitive dissonance exists. I applaud your attempts to help, but be reminded that this is the same for you as it is for me. Why do you think I have such a difficult time debating with them 40 year old guys in another forum? The only reason why we are even having this conversation right now is because we have a relatively smaller gap in comparison to ours to the kid or ours to the 40 year old philosophers.

Secondarily, even you confuse the definition of evolution and other aspects of this and other scientific fields, such as abiogenesis and the Big Bang theory. Evolution has nothing to do with anything other than genetic material. Period. Anything we determine to "add on top" are our constructs to learn what is existing. You're not a scientist nor do you study science in school. So while factually what you're saying is true about Big Bang or abiogenesis, there is a mix up of where everything lies in the scale of biological sciences.

Thirdly, you're the only one who interpreted this as a jerk move. Please note that you have a natural tendency to interpret any text I write to be hostile even when I'm not, though it is more likely because my writing can be a bit "analytically cold" at times.

Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
How do you know your belief is the right one? There are no facts proving God doesn't exist, so you are simply placing your beliefs that there is no such thing. You simply believe it, same as these people believe in a God. The only difference is sometimes Abrahamic religions can be stubborn and aggressive about such things. Of course, you are also being quite aggressive and much of a jerk when this person is only stating his beliefs and opinions. That shows that the religious are not the only ones guilty of such a fault.

Simply put, there may or may not be a God. While science seems to be the only one making any progress in researching natural happenings, there is no evidence to disprove the existence of a Maker either. So, in all fairness, there is no definite answer.
You also make an assumption that I'm atheist nonetheless. I never said anything about who is being right or not; that wasn't my point. My point was to find out for yourself and stick with that, not what your parents say or what some preacher told you from age 5 to indoctrinate you. I could care less if after you've searched and found that Christianity/Judaism/Hindu/Satanism/Wicca/Buddhism/Muslim/Catholic/etc. is the correct religion; you've found what's right for you. The point of the paragraph was not to specifically attack Christianity or talk about my beliefs (it is irrelevant), but to propose questions and to examine the core of the ideas that exist and show that there are logical fallacies hidden within the different forms of indoctrination that exists. If one wants to straight up tell me "I'm right", then they better have answers to the most common fallacies, or at least have thought about them. The kid's 11, he's unlikely to have encountered those questions before. Heck, I even told the kid to have his cake and eat it.

Science will never strive to prove or disprove the existence of a god or not by sheer virtue of the fact that science is the study of the natural world. It cannot cross boundaries and answer questions about the supernatural. I'd like to keep it that way.

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 07-18-2011 at 02:16 AM.
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