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Old 03-22-2009, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
The bailout gives money to the corporations such as the automotive industry like Ford and banks. What you said here is doesn't follow from what I just said.

The second thing is that the lower class are the people that work the hardest. Period. If you don't believe me, go to your local library and pick up Jone's Minimal: Low-wage Labor in the United States by David Griffith or even Contingent Work, Disrupted Lives by Anthony Winson and Belinda Leach. The former shows the exploitation of the lower class by industries to keep the industries' costs down. The latter documents how people who are in the middle class that fell into the lower class sector because of globalization. The easiest conclusion to be made here is VERY simple: "The less you make, the harder you work" (Winson and Leach 2002:140).

The third is that wealth redistribution is not a bad thing. Take any third world country and show me how the lack of wealth redistribution helped the people come out of abject poverty. Take any skid row in any country and show me how the lack of wealth redistribution has helped them get out of abject poverty. What you are saying is a justification to continue exploitation of people already in poverty by linking wealth redistribution, even a tiny amount, to socialism, which is a different idea altogether, because it is a much larger expanse of ideas.

I don't agree in particular with socialism, but it is clear that there are ideas within socialism that is worth exploring. Widening the gap between the rich and the poor is not the solution. By the way, my guess is that you don't like taxation of any sort then, considering that taxation is one form of wealth redistribution.

It's no strings attached for the corporations, silly.

The government is responsible for your education, including college. The United States made college expensive instead of free specifically because it runs on a debt economy, so their people need a source of debt, whether it is from higher education or from a lack of education. It's stupid to think that going to college is not education, and it's stupid to think that the United States and Canada can't do what the European Unions have been doing for decades. So yes, it did apply a system of rules in this case, just one that makes sure that you will be in debt no matter what you do.

In any case, the government's role in a country goes far beyond just applying systems of rules and granting rights to people, but that's again beyond the scope of this debate.

It is not the government's responsibility for the people to get jobs or owning a house, this much I agree on. However, this has also nothing to do with wealth redistribution.
The lower class doesn't work the hardest. Why do you think they became the lower class? It's just that the middle and upper classes start working hard earlier in life, through school and early life. I'm not going to pay someone's mortgage because they didn't set priorities and goals for themselves. Yes, wealth redistribution lowers poverty rates, but that statement was totally one-dimensional-the middle and upper classes unfairly lost money in that process. I do donate to charities, but the government should not be a charity. They've got better issues to deal with right now. How about getting the economy back on track rather than just handing out money?

No strings attached? That's the problem: there needs to be a string attached. Otherwise, the people are being forced to pay this money back rather than the corporations who should be paying them back.

College is post-secondary and optional education, so I feel that the government should not be responsible for it. The only reason college tuition is so high is because the government felt everybody should be able to go to college-and invented guaranteed student loans. Immediately after that, tuition almost doubled.

I think that this stimulus money should be cut to about 10% of what it is now, and only be spent towards alternative energy and new technologies. That should create plenty of jobs, generate money, and hopefully end the recession.
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